ssharma wrote:
Hmm, where to start?
> 1.This timeline is based on ' No Islam" POD.
>
> 2.Since there is no Islam , the entire Middle-east and North Africa
> remain Christian.
Okay, but what's the political situation in the near East? Persia vs
Eastern Roman Empire continuing ad nauseam? What about the barbarian
kingdoms of North Africa? What's Visigothic Spain up to?
And Persia remain Zorastrian till now.
Okay, but I suggest that a Zoroastrianism that remains a state religion
will evolve considerably over such a long period. It may even be almost
unrecognisable.
>
> 3.But the population of the above regions are different from Europeans
> culturally,linguistically
I would expect that sans Islam the Eastern Mediterranean and southern
Italy will remain Greek speaking as the language of high culture,
government, law and business and culturally akin to the pre conquest
Byzantine/late Roman culture in the region. Western north Africa will be
a Latin/barbarian cross with enhanced Byzantine influence, especially if
the Eastern Empire is not facing the Arabs and can spend more
resources on trying to get the region back (same goes for Italy). The
Latin-Greek split remains, of course, but the Mediterranean basin
remains far more culturally unified than OTL, which in turn has major
political and economic effects for both the region and northern Europe too.
and ,of course, racially.
Hmm.
>
> 4.So there is no Crusades,
Okay.
but nastier wars between Christian nations
> of the regions.
Why nastier than OTL?
>
> 5.Things get a bit more complicated with the arrival of Mongols,
That's a big jump. What has happened about the Turkish invasions of the
Near East? Didn't happen? Did they manage to knock over the Eastern
Empire completely or seize a large part of it? What's happened to the
Persian Empire in the meantime and re Turks? What's the situation with
the various tribes moving into the Balkans and Black Sea area.
and
> these guys are converted to Nestorianism en masse
That's a very interesting PoD, though I don't know how likely it is. I
wish Bgarid was here (SHWI's only Mongol) to inform us. I'd have thought
that Christian Mongols would create major problems for them further
East, especially re China.
and proceed to spread
> Mongol rule everywhere.
There's a good chance that in this TL the Mongols are facing much
stronger states in the Near East than OTL. They might be defeated there
a lot quicker than OTL.
>
> 6.Turks(Christians),
Turks convert to Christianity is again a very pregnant PoD.
are the only one to stop the Mongol attacks
How? Where are they and what do they control?
and
> Unite all of Middle-east under one rule, wheras Coptic Egypt Controlls
> much Of North Africa.
How was this Coptic Egypt created? Did the Eastern Empire break up or
did a governor do a Muhammad Ali Pasha on them and create his own kingdom?
>
> 7.The period between 15th-18th Centuries witnesses the many attempts to
> colonize Egypt,
This Coptic Egypt is clearly a strong power in your TL so why is it a
target for colonisation?
as it is the Gateway to the 'riches of East', with
> Spain getting Egypt by 1750s.
The Spain we know will not exist in this TL, nor any of the other
European nations of OTL.
>
> 8.So there is a revival of Turkish Rule in Middle-east
You need to explain how the Turks came to rule the Near East in the
first place.
with the
> establishment of A' Christian Caliphet' in Bhagdad in early 1800s.
Baghdad will probably not exist in this TL. Ctesiphon, the capital of
the Persian Empire may do, but we need to know what's happened in
Persia. If the Christian Turks (holding the Levant, Syria and some of
Iraq as you seem to be positing) are going to found a claimed supreme
bishopric it'll be in Antioch, one of the patriarchal sees, rather than
anywhere else. Also, what about the Orthodox? They aren't going to
accept the supremacy of Antioch over Constantinople, and if the Turks
have Constantinople, why are they bothering with anywhere else?
I see major theological problems with this whole idea.
After
> Russians take over all areas around Black sea.
No. The Russians as we know them do not exist in this TL.
>
> 9.This caliphate,
You need to define what this papacy with power/neo-Byzantine Emperor as
vicegerent of God actually is.
although not a Catholic one,gets enough support from
> European powers,
Why, and which European powers? Your PoD means the map and politics of
Europe are completely different. Even the Roman Catholic Church will
probably not exist in this TL.
as
> the only hope to prevent rising Russian and Persian Powers in the
> Region.
What _has_ happened to Persia?
>
> 10.The Caliph of the Mesopatomian Christian Kingdoms is as powerful as
> Medievel Popes,
> and in addition is the Political leader of some 40-50 million People.
So, this is what you are aiming for.
>
> 11.WW I comes and this caliphet alligns with British and gets enough
> areas in return for the services rendered.
There is no WW I and no British in a recognisable form.
>
> 12.The Kingdom covers the region , covering all of Iraq, Armenia,
> Azerbaizan,Eastern Turkey,
> Syria,Lebanon & Arabian Peninsula.
Hmm.
>
> 13.The caliphet is Neutral in WW II,
WW II doesn't happen.
but after the creation Of Israel,
No Israel either.
> from some of its territories,it is Less friendly with Western powers,
> but enjoying friendly relations with USSR.
There is no USSR.
> The situation is used cleverly by Zorastrian Persia , which becomes
> like,OTL Turkey
>
> 14.There are a couple of Indecisive wars with Israel.
>
> 15.There is a full-fledged Communist Coup
No Communists.
in 1973, with the Caliph
> running to India(a United Hindu one, as there is no Isalm)
India could be anything in this TL. Its history will be unrecognisable.
>
> 16.The communist Nation is so strong and powerful, with enough Oil
> resources.
>
> 17.It launches a war in early 1990s on Persia and Israel, But
> succesfully defeated by Alliance forces(USA, EU,India,Japan-all needing
> the Middle-east oil).
None of these powers exists save possibly Persia.
>
> 18.The Caliphet returns to the Christendom , but as constitutional
> Monarchy.
>
> 19.Although few attempts to dethrone the democratic government,
> succesfully defeated,
> Anti-caliphet forces cause continuous nuisance.
>
> 20.2006AD, the Calipet of Mesopatomia ,is now a peaceful nation with 70
> million People and with a Percapita GDP of 12500 US dollors.
>
>
You have too many PoD, too much assumption based on OTL history and have
followed the classic error of forgetting that change magnifies the
further from the PoD we get. Likewise, there are too many unexplained
jumps.
However, if your aim is a powerful Christian Turkish state controlling a
substantial portion of the Near East that might be done, but not from
your PoD. I would suggest that Islam exists and has the history of OTL
prior to the Turkish invasions, but the Turks got converted to Orthodox
Christianity at the end of the their Volkswanderung just before they
fall on the Arab empire like a wolf on the fold. The Eastern Emperor
invites the Turks to deal with the infidel, something he will later come
to regret.
Sophia
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